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If We Knew?
Author: Ellen M. H. Gates Appears in 21 hymnals First Line: If we knew when walking thoughtless, In the noisy, crowded way
If We Knew?
[If we knew when walking thoughtless]
Appears in 4 hymnals Composer and/or Arranger: Wm. M. Waller Incipit: 32121 65116 51232 Used With Text: If We Knew?
[If we knew when walking thoughtless]
[If we knew, when walking tho'tless]
Appears in 1 hymnal Composer and/or Arranger: T. C. O'Kane Tune Key: E Flat Major Incipit: 12333 46554 33432 Used With Text: If we knew
[If we knew, when walking tho'tless]
If We Knew?
Hymnal: The Revival #46 (1890) First Line: If we knew when walking thoughtless Languages: English Tune Title: [If we knew when walking thoughtless]
If We Knew?
If We Knew?
Hymnal: Tears and Triumphs No. 3 #20 (1902) First Line: If we knew when walking thoughtless Languages: English Tune Title: [If we knew when walking thoughtless]
If We Knew?
If We Knew?
Hymnal: Tears and Triumphs #33 (1894) First Line: If we knew when walking thoughtless Languages: English Tune Title: [If we knew when walking thoughtless]
If We Knew?
T. C. O'Kane
1830 - 1912 Composer of "[If we knew, when walking tho'tless]" in The Morning Star O'Kane, Tullius Clinton, an American writer, born March 10, 1830, is the author of "O sing of Jesus, Lamb of God" (Redemption); and "Who, who are these beside the chilly wave?" (Triumph in Death), in I. D. Sankey's Sacred Songs and Solos, 1878 and 1881.
--John Julian, Dictionary of Hymnology, Appendix, Part II (1907)
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Tullius Clinton O'Kane was born in Fairfield County, Ohio, March 10, 1830. He resided with his parents in this vicinity until the spring of 1849, when he went to Delaware, Ohio, and entered the Ohio Wesleyan University, from which he graduated in 1852, with the degree A. B., and received his A. M. degree three years later from his Alma Mater.
Immediately upon his graduation, he was tendered a position in the Faculty as Tutor of Mathematics, which he accepted and successfully filled for five years. The students always called him "Professor," by which title he is known to the present day.
His musical abilities were early recognized in the University, and for years he was the musical precentor in the daily chapel devotions. He organized and maintained a Choral Society in the College, and was the first musical instructor in the Ohio Wesleyan Female College, which a few years ago was incorporated into the University.
In 1857 he was elected to a principalship in the Cincinnati public schools, and served in that capacity until 1861, when he resigned his position to accept a place in the piano establishment of Philip Phillips & Co. He remained with this house until its removal to New York City in 1867, when, although urged to be transferred with the house to that city, he preferred to remove with his family back to Delaware, Ohio.
For the ensuing six years he traveled over the state of Ohio as the general agent for the Smith American Organ Co., of Boston, Mass. During this time he visited conferences, Sunday-school conventions, both State and County, introducing his Sunday-school singing books, and in this way became well known throughout his native state, and quite extensively in some of the adjoining states.
His musical compositions were first published in Philip Phillips' Musical Leaves, in 1865, and since then but few Sunday-school singing books have appeared without one or more of his compositions.
His first music book, Fresh Leaves, was issued in 1868. This was followed at intervals by Dew Drops, Songs of Worship, Every Sabbath, Jasper and Gold, Redeemer's Praise, Glorious Things and Morning Stars. In connection with his son, Edward T. O'Kane, who is himself a most excellent composer and a very skillful organist, in 1882 he issued Selected Anthems, a book designed for use by the more advanced choirs. In association with J. R. Sweney and "Chaplain" McCabe, he issued Joy to the World, a song book for prayer-meetings, and the same editors, with the addition of W. J. Kirkpatrick, compiled Songs of Redeeming Love, No. 1, in 1882, and No. 2 in 1884. He also issued Songs of Praises, Unfading Treasures and Forward Songs.
Some of Professor O'Kane's best known songs are Glorious Fountain, The Home Over There, On Jordan's Stormy Banks, Say, are You Ready? and many others. With Mr. O'Kane, music and musical composition have ever been a recreation, rather than a profession. He is an excellent leader of choirs, but his forte seems to be in leading large congregations, Sunday-schools and social religious meetings in sacred song. He sings "with the spirit and the understanding also " — with a due appreciation of both words and music — and very naturally infuses his enthusiasm into his audiences so that they cannot "keep from singing." In his music he endeavors to catch the spirit of the hymn, and then give it expression in the music he composes for it. This sometimes seems to have been almost an inspiration, and could be illustrated by a reference to the circumstances under which many of his compositions have been made.
One of his earlier and more widely known pieces is that entitled, Over There. He says he cut this hymn out of some newspaper and put it with others in his portfolio, intending some time when he felt like it to give it a musical setting. One Sunday afternoon, after studying his lesson for the next session of his Sunday-school, he opened his portfolio, and turning over the selections, found these words, and something seemed to say, "Now's your time." He sat down at the organ, studied the hymn intently for a few moments, and then, as his fingers touched the keys of the instrument, melody and harmony were in every movement, and when the stanza was ended, melody and harmony found their expression in the chorus, and Over There was finished.
Another of his well known songs is Sweeping Through the Gates. One cold, blustery day he had occasion to go from his residence to the railroad depot, about a mile distant, and in his route had to cross the river on a suspension foot-bridge. As he came down to the bridge, he thought of the "river of death," so cold, with no bridge, and then the words of the dying Cookman came to his mind, and he exclaimed to himself:
'Who, who are these beside the chilly wave? "
Words, melody and refrain seemed to come all at once and all together, so that by the time he arrived back at his home, the composition was complete.
Professor O'Kane is a genial, modest Christian gentleman, who carries sunshine wherever he goes. His greatest joy comes from the consciousness that his music has cheered and comforted the hearts of Christian people all over the world, and has been the means of winning thousands from the pleasures of the world to the higher enjoyments of the Christian religion. His song, Sweeping Through the Gates, will be sung till all the ransomed are gathered Over There.
-Hall, J. H. (c1914). Biographies of Gospel Song and Hymn Writers. New York: Fleming H. Revell Company.
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O'Kane, Tullius Clinton. Died 10 February 1912, Delaware, Ohio. Buried in Oak Grove Cemetery, Delaware, Ohio.
--DNAH Archives
T. C. O'Kane
Charlie D. Tillman
1861 - 1943 Harmonizer of "[If we knew when walking thoughtless]" in The Revival Tillman, Charles "Charlie" Davis. (Tallahassee, Talapoosa County, Alabama, March 20, 1861--1943). Married Anna Killingsworth (Dec. 24, 1889); four daughters, one son (d.1910).
--Keith C. Clark, DNAH Archives
Charlie D. Tillman
Ellen M. H. Gates
1835 - 1920 Person Name: Mrs. E. H. Gates Author of "If we knew" in The Morning Star Gates, Ellen, née Huntingdon, of Elizabeth, New Jersey, is the author of several popular pieces in the American Mission and Sunday School hymn-books. Of these the following have passed from the American books into Sankey's Sacred Songs and Solos:—
1. Come home, come home, you are weary at heart. Invitation.
2. I am now a child of God. Saved through Jesus.
3. I will sing you a song of that beautiful land. Concerning Heaven.
4. O the clanging bells of time. Yearning for Heaven.
5. Say, is your lamp burning, my brother. Watching and Waiting.
Concerning her poem which is used as a hymn in America, "If you cannot on the ocean" (Duty), Duffield says her account of its origin is as follows:—"The lines were written upon my slate one snowy afternoon in the winter of 1860. I knew, as I know now, that the poem was only a simple little thing, but somehow 1 had a presentiment that it had wings, and would fly into sorrowful hearts, uplifting and strengthening them." (English Hymns, 1886, p. 257.)
--John Julian, Dictionary of Hymnology, Appendix, Part II (1907)
======================
Gates, Ellen, p. 1565, i., now (1906) of New York city, was born at Torrington, Conn., and married to Isaac E. Gates. Her poems, &c, were published as Treasures of Kurium, 1895. Concerning Dr. March's hymn, "Hark! the voice of Jesus crying" (q.v.), and Mrs. Gates's "If you cannot on the ocean," some confusion has arisen, mainly, we think, from the fact that the opening line of Mrs. Gates's hymn, written in 1860, and the first line of Dr. March's second stanza are nearly the same, i.e., "If you cannot on the ocean," and "If you cannot cross the ocean." The incident which associates the late President Lincoln's name with this hymn is thus set forth by Mr. Philip Phillips in his Singing Pilgrim, 1866, p. 97:—
"The words of this truly beautiful song ['If you cannot on the ocean'] were written by Mrs. Ellen H. Gates . . . When our lamented President Lincoln heard Mr. Phillips sing it at the Hall of Representatives in Washington, Feb. 29, 1865, he was overcome with emotion, and sent up the following written request [given in facsimile on p. 97] to Hon. Wm. H. Seward, Chairman, for its repetition:—' Near the end let us have "Your Mission" [the title of the hymn] repeated by Mr. Phillips. Don't say I called for it. A. Lincoln.' "
It was through this incident that the hymn became known through America as " President Lincoln's favourite hymn." [Rev. James Mearns, M.A.]
--John Julian, Dictionary of Hymnology, New Supplement (1907)
Ellen M. H. Gates
